Things I couldn’t find a place for in this article….Z-Ro’s “no discrimination” verse from “T.H.U.G” that mentions “lesbians and gay men.” The last verse of Pimp C’s “Shattered Dreams” where he tells gay people, “do your thing, because can’t no man tell you what’s wrong or right.” Also that Lil Wayne, like Tupac before him, dresses in a kind of “drag-king” style clearly swiped from the working-class lesbians of his city (incidentally, Tupac’s from Baltimore, the home of out Club vocalist Miss Tony). The write-up’s stronger for not having those tangents, but they’re worth mentioning I think. Not to play a “name your favorite anti-homophobia reference in rap” game but to totally play, “name your favorite anti-homophobia reference in rap,” what are yours? I’ve long had the idea to do a “gay week” on this blog that really break down the many direct and sideways contributions the gay community’s provided for hip-hop. May still do it one day. Yeah, the article’s below as usual:
The familiar conceit of this past Sunday’s New York Times Magazine article “Sissy Bounce: New Orleans’s Gender-Bending Rap,” goes something like this: There are some gay rappers in New Orleans. Rap’s usually really homophobic. That’s crazy, huh? Contrasting the apparently enlightened attitude of New Orleans bounce with mainstream hip-hop’s homophobia in order to wrap a chin-scratching, Times-friendly thesis around a rowdy, obscene style of Southern dance music is probably good for the genre’s visibility. And the assertion that rap is gay-unfriendly is so well proven by now that the piece’s writer, Jonathan Dee, doesn’t even deign to provide any examples to support it. Fair enough: hip-hop’s track record, when it comes to addressing homosexuality, is abysmal. But do we really know for a fact that rap remains completely unenlightened, circa 2010?
In the eighties, hip-hop was venomous toward gays: think Big Daddy Kane’s “anti-faggot” law from “Pimpin Ain’t Easy”, or Public Enemy’s “The parts don’t fit/Aww, shit” aside from “Meet The G That Killed Me.” In the nineties, rap’s signature was the hard-ass “faggot”-filled vitriol of groups like Wu-Tang and the Lox. Along with today’s lunkheaded leftovers from those two decades, there are still songs like “MC Hammer” off Rick Ross’ Teflon Don, wherein the Boss tells listeners “credit card scams [are] for the faggots.”
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I think it’s funny that one of the most outwardly homophobic rap records I’ve heard was Tribe’s unreleased ‘Georgie Peorgie’ (which became ‘Show Business’). Instead of just including a few throwaway lines dissing ‘faggots’ or ’sissies’, their song was this general denunciation of the whole idea of homosexuality. Which is weird because of Tribe’s reputation as a ‘good rap’ group (i.e., ‘I-really-don’t-like-rap-but-I-listen-to…’). I actually feel like most of rap’s homophobia can be claimed by these righteous rap groups (X-Clan, Public Enemy, Brand Nubian, etc.); not the reality/gangsta rap that usually catches all the flak. Not trying to put these groups down, either. I’m a fan of all of them, but I gotta be honest.
One of my favorite anti-homophobia rap references comes from an interview, not a song. During Pimp C’s interview with an Atlanta radio station (after apparently dissing the city, claiming it wasn’t really the south, etc.), the subject of homosexuality came up. Murda Mase (I think? not trying to spread misinformation) was clearly called out for being closeted, not for being gay. I’m paraphrasing, but the gist of his point was that “if-you’re-gay-then-be-gay”. If that’s what you’re into, be a fucking man and claim that shit. Which is a pretty enlightened stance to take, I think.
brad
29 Jul 10 at 9:05 pm
was hip hop more gay-friendly in the early 80s or am i romanticizing?
thinking of:
- acts like man parrish
- flamboyant clothing (jonzun crew, bambaataa, grandmaster flash & the ff)
c.r.
3 Aug 10 at 6:24 pm
brad-
My bad for not getting back to you sooner. Yeah, I mean, you’re totally right. I also think it has something to do with the East Coast, especially a city like New York actually being way more homophobic than other places. That’s to say, there’s a far less open-minded and unforgiving working-class in the East.
And yes, that Pimp C line is great and a really clever flip on what’s expected and also expounds on his more sophisticated form of being a man, etc: JUST DON’T BE BULLSHIT.
c.r-
I don’t think any of this stuff was really seen as gay then though. That said, rap was still tied to the downtown scene and House, Disco, etc. and so, a gay population, involvement, was just there, you know? Nothing one could do about it.
Brandon
4 Aug 10 at 7:18 pm
Great article.
It’s amazing to me how muted the discussions about hip hop and homosexuality continue to be. Two recent events which I thought would bring some of this into open—but didn’t—were the hoopla around Guru’s death and his relationship with Solar as well as the controversy with Wale dropping out, then dropping back in, to the DC Black Pride event. I was hoping Wale would dedicate a song to it on ‘More About Nothing,’ but no dice. He seems like one of the guys who could tackle the thing musically with the thoughtfulness it requires.
Wilson
5 Aug 10 at 10:07 pm
Wilson-
Thanks, man. I’ll start by saying that I don’t think either of your examples are really the way a discussion would get going, but I see what you mean. Namely, the homophobia manifests itself in this way that to even maybe kinda discuss this Guru thing like that would just be dismissed. I think the Wale thing is interesting because he’s totally a rapper who wouldn’t “suffer” from performing there, who could do it and totally keep being him, but he still didn’t.
Brandon
6 Aug 10 at 5:56 am
” don’t think any of this stuff was really seen as gay then though.”
very true, it doesn’t have to be a conscious thing … it probably wasn’t. but even with today’s flood of indie/tight pants rappers, nobody would dare to dress in leather & bondage (except for melle mel who still does). fear of transgression is definitely stronger and some boundaries were more permeable back then!
that said, maybe i am overstretching my argument a bit. those dresscodes only reflect the hyper-masculine masquerade of gay culture … so maybe it was a bit of a misunderstanding / miscitation / misrecognition?
c.r.
7 Aug 10 at 10:45 am
c.r-
Nah, I think I was worried people were gonna come at you for the comment, so I tried to circumvent it, but I know what you mean. Melle Mel can beat the fuck out of anybody so he rocks the leather and gets away with it.
I think you’re kinda opening up a really interesting discussion here, like almost a thesis, ha, but basically a lot of hip-hop and underground art–rock, and dance culture, etc was very gay-derived in the 80s and so, these styles were there whether homophobes liked it or not. This does connect to hip-hop’s homophobia though in the sense that it’s really hard to make these connections and get people to buy into it. So while it’s accepted that Madonna grabbed from gay culture, it’s harder to thread all the connections between say Paradise Garage or New and No Wave and rap and have someone buy into it.
Brandon
8 Aug 10 at 3:22 am
As soon as I at first commented I clicked the Notify me whenever new comments are added checkbox and currently each and every time a remark is added I receive 4 emails with the exact same comment.
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