Salem make a gothic, syrupy kind of electronic music and the touchstones of their sound are the slowed-down, choppy drums and vocals of Houston screw music. On some songs, such as “Trapdoor” (the title itself, a play on the horror movie elements of their music and their love of coke-slanging “trap-rap”), the rapped vocals of the all-white, Midwestern group creep along, slurred, heavy with bass–like a DJ Screw freestyle. These quasi-raps are punctuated by the word “bitch,” threats of rape, and some clear pronunciation nods to Southern rap. Streets is “skreets” for example. A lot of people, like Christopher Weingarten think this is pretty offensive. A lot of other people, like Larry Fitzmaurice are just like, “nope.” Others, including the group itself—defend the vocals as simple, vocal manipulation.
Well, it’s not. The slowed down vocals do not only have the effect of bringing the vocalist’s voice down to stoned crawl, they make the white performer sound black. This, coupled with lyrics that are content-wise, what my grandmother thinks rap’s about (murder, rape, misogyny, repeat) and the problematic, conscious “hip-hop” pronunciations underneath that vocal effect, makes Salem’s music pretty egregious. This is a group of white kids who’ve screwed their vocals down to “sound black,” and then use that screwing-down of vocals to say things they wouldn’t–and couldn’t–say otherwise. Employing the word “minstrelsy” is controversy-baiting, but it also isn’t that far off.
Songs like “Trapdoor” also do a disservice to screw music and southern rap by reducing it to aggro-violence and tough-guy sexuality. There’s a communal joy in those DJ Screw freestyles. There’s a sense of humor and word-obsessive fun on Gucci Mane songs. And the production isn’t relentlessly dark. You don’t screw Junior’s “Mama Used To Say” if you’re trying to be all tough and scary.
When the “this shit’s offensive” discussion really started to pick up, it turned into a debate about “authenticity” when that was ultimately besides the point. Ignoring the musical issue (that King Night is much less sonically sophisticated than the stuff it’s ripping off), which has nothing to do with “authenticity,” there isn’t really any degree of “authenticity” that could justify these dopey kids changing their voices to sound like Project Pat and then, saying “bitch” a whole lot.
Plus, Salem are plenty authentic. If the game here is “authenticity=struggle” etc. well a group of midwest fuck-ups who had or have drug problems should be awarded some major points. My guess is that they feel like they relate to the “fuck the world” feeling of DJ Screw freestyles and Waka Flocka’s fight rap just like they relate to black metal’s nihilism. And that’s interesting! And awesome. Good to see artists reaching into music beyond what they’re “supposed” to reach into and also, it’s the internet era, age of information, etc. so really, why wouldn’t these Salem kids who clearly like Gucci Mane or Chicago Footwork cram it into their music? Fusion! Yes! For extra “authenticity” points, Salem hail from Chicago and Detroit and so, they have something resembling a direct connection and understanding of this stuff.
Only they don’t. The group really show their asses in this XLR8R interview. Salem’s Jack Donoghue calls footwork wunderkind DJ Nate’s music “smart,” but adds, “but I don’t think he’s trying to be clever.” DJ Nate is most certainly trying to be clever. That’s what sample-based dance music like footwork is all about: consciously flipping the weirdest, funniest, most dope sample in the coolest, smartest way possible. Heather Marlatt, photographed for the magazine in cornrows, describes her interest in “Juggalos” but not the Insane Clown Posse’s music, which seems the inverse of Salem’s interest in black music: who cares about the people, it’s all about the sounds, man.
Later in the same interview, John Holland dismisses the whole “hey, it’s fucking weird that these kids are making themselves sound like black guys” argument with this: “It’s not like we’re Elvis Presley…what are we robbing the music from a different race? Give me a break!.” That’s of course, exactly what these guys are doing. But that isn’t what’s troubling people about the group. It’s that inexcusable and naïve employment of the screw vocals for something far beyond a sonic effect.
Notice, that despite Salem’s “authentic” pedigree (ex-junkies and troubled youths, from the birthplace of at least some of their sounds, etc.) the group’s defenders rarely take the “authenticity” approach to justify the group’s music. Instead, they play the “post-authenticity” game, which steps around “there’s some racially problematic stuff about these kids” altogether. It says: none of that stuff matters anymore. The floodgates are open bro, get with the program! “Post-authenticity” starts to sounds a lot like “post-racial” explain-aways.
When the argument doesn’t go with the “authenticity is dead” narrative, it reaches for “authenticity never existed.” There will be references to “fakers” like Elvis Presley or Bob Dylan, either to deflect (as Holland did with XLR8R) or as some weird, precedent: music was never authentic and the rock n’roll from decades ago (and a very different America) straight-jacked a lot of music, so it’s acceptable for people in 2010 to do whatever they hell they want as well.
Brandon Ivers, who wrote the XLR8R piece, articulates that “post-authenticity” angle well: “Salem embodies a generation that doesn’t care about race, sexual orientation, authenticity, and a lot of other stuff that used to be a big deal.” There’s some irony in Ivers’ statement but he’s completely on the nose when it comes to Salem: they don’t care. And the music fans and critics embracing these clowns don’t care either.
Are You A Serious Comic Book Reader?
But, but, authenticity never did exist. Robert Johnson sang vaudeville show tunes. It’s all showbiz. And this whole thing of “us[ing] that screwing-down of vocals to say things they wouldn’t–and couldn’t–say otherwise” is BS, too. White musicians say all kinds of fucked-up shit all the time, cf. Cannibal Corpse. If the members of Salem had started a death metal band and put the exact same lyrics in a gurgling growl, you wouldn’t give a shit and neither would Weingarten. You’re granting “black” music a sacredness it doesn’t have and its darker-skinned practitioners probably don’t want. So the question isn’t, “How dare Salem?” it’s “Who appointed you border guard?”
pdf
12 Oct 10 at 7:03 pm
“Songs like “Trapdoor” also do a disservice to screw music and southern rap by reducing it to aggro-violence and tough-guy sexuality.”
Sort of like very early Three 6, actually. (The underground stuff up until about the second album. I know, even Mystic Stylez has ‘Da Summa.’ But still.) I mean, it’s not like their CD comes with a sticker on it that says “screw music and southern rap is ALL ABOUT aggro-violence and tough-guy sexuality.” That’s just what they choose to borrow from southern rap, what interests them. This is a really tall and ridiculous order you’re setting – that you can’t emulate Jeezy’s ‘Halloween Massacre’ without picking up on the communal joy in ‘My Hood.’ These guys just aren’t about communal joy; there’s no reason they have to be or should be. Leaving race aside, because I don’t understand what’s wrong with musical racial theft at all and therefore won’t have anything helpful to say about it, you’re just seeing way more here than there is. I like Gucci Mane very much, I enjoy the things he does that aren’t dark at all as well as the things that are, but frankly, my favorite Gucci song all year was ‘Coca Coca’ and I’d be thrilled if he made a whole album doing intimidating chants in Spanish over samples from horror movie soundtracks. Or if Crime Mob did a whole album that sounded like ‘Knuck if You Buck.’ We’re never going to get that, so here comes Salem with something similar for people like me who have a penchant for relentlessly dark stuff but are too preppy or hipster or what have you to listen to goth. What I’ve heard of it seems a little too alienating and inaccessible for me, but I’m cool with the direction they’re going in.
Tray
12 Oct 10 at 7:56 pm
I just went and listened to Trapdoor on Youtube and I actually started laughing out loud at how off beat these guys were. Were they trying to approximate some sort of drug-addled haze with their rhymes, or are they just living up to my stereotypes about white people?
randomkid
12 Oct 10 at 11:15 pm
I really don’t feel like the subject matter is the issue here. Of course white artists have always embraced “aggro-violence and tough-guy sexuality.” The point of controversy seems to be the simultaneous “clear pronunciation nods to Southern rap.” When Salem’s not performing, do they speak this way? I would actually be interested in hearing the reactions of those folks who have had their accents appropriated. Are they cool with Salem’s music?
I call bullshit on the post-authenticity (and post-racial) arguments. Every new generation thinks they’re transgressive and above the baggage carried by their ancestors. Didn’t baby-boomers think they were breaking down barriers and rejecting racism in the sixties? We all know how that turned out.
At the same time, minstrelsy is embedded in America’s musical DNA. But since racism doesn’t exist anymore, twenty-first century minstrel shows don’t have any of those white supremacist undertones. Because, like, everybody’s equal now, and we have a black president and stuff.
brad
12 Oct 10 at 11:21 pm
I’ve explained why this IS offensive and I see a lot of responses telling me why this doesn’t matter, but no one is really breaking down why this ISN’T offensive.
Brad got my point though or my argument, which is, “this is a very specific example of offensive appropriation, mainly because it goes beyond simple appropriation.”: “The point of controversy seems to be the simultaneous “clear pronunciation nods to Southern rap.”
Phil-
Well, as the title says here, it’s never been about authenticity. I’m tossing a lot of stuff out here and it probably doesn’t totally gel, but I think you’re misreading. In part because I’m not clear and maybe in part because you want to.
My point with Elvis/Dylan is your Robert Johnson point but that to me still doesn’t justify a bunch of kids affecting black accents and half-rapping like this. It’s just fucking offensive.
I think your “same exact lyrics” argument doesn’t work because if they were singing these rap lyrics, including the stuff like “I be” and employing rap specific slang I would think it’s offensive too. I think if they sang those lyrics and still pronounced “streets” as “skreets” I would be having the same discussion. You know, they’d come off a lot dumber though b/c screwing the vocals to sound like Project Pat definitely helps “sell” this.
It’s also fun that in the same sentence where I’m a “border guard” you are telling me that dark-skinned people “probably” don’t want people like me to defend them.
I don’t think you intend it, but when we play this “well have black people themselves said anything about this?”/”you’re being offended for black people” you’re basically suggesting that me (or Weingarten or whoever) can’t just be offended by this ourselves? As if you know, my day would be just fine if I didn’t decide to think of myself as Johnny Liberal, and defend the poor black people.
Nah dude. This shit OFFENDS ME.
Brandon
13 Oct 10 at 4:27 am
yelawolf is my current gold standard of white-rappers sounding like THEMSELVES.
His Rhyme Room Episode 2 is just fucking awesome.
/watch?v=GDw-pd9lK10
he covers fucking song by The Cars and then raps between the hook like only he can. Weird ass video that’s also insanely dope.
It’s always refreshing to see little microcosms of America pop-up in rap, like a Yelawolf who represents southern country boy who is more influenced by his poverty than his race and thus has a lot of common with poor blacks (lynard skynard didn’t talk about movin keys of coke man) or a Kendrick Lamar who represents a common part of inner cities, the “civilian” who is kinda friends with the gangsters but not really one himself. Added bonus is that they both make incredibly awesome music.
Anyway,
I don’t know if I am personally offended by this shit (I think I am), and I’m black, but that doesn’t matter. The racial aspect is understandably annoying as fuck but for the most part…eh.
I think it’s offensive from an artistic point of view. They completely misread(heard?) all the houston shit and like boil it all down to the least common denominator which is just a shell of what that genre of music really is, what it represents, and what it very artistically conveys. They are doing it JUST to sound black and houstonish, not because they care about that style of music or the culture that influences it. Like, don’t say skreet unless you grew up saying skreet. It’s just dismissive of the culture.
Akin
13 Oct 10 at 6:27 am
It’s Ivers, BTW. He’s the homie so I have to correct you. But this was a good read.
andrewmatson
17 Oct 10 at 9:17 pm
Andrew-
Ack, my bad. Ivers is fixed!
Brandon
17 Oct 10 at 9:47 pm
“Instead, they play the “post-authenticity” game, which steps around “there’s some racially problematic stuff about these kids” altogether. It says: none of that stuff matters anymore. The floodgates are open bro, get with the program!”
If this is your strawman why do you post raving Waka Flocka and Tim Hecker reviews right next to each other? It’s not that I like Salem, just that this is more retarded than your Diplo-Gucci thing from last year.
een
19 Oct 10 at 6:32 pm
spot fucking on, the best words on Salem to date
Dave Quam
20 Oct 10 at 5:55 am
een: “If this is your strawman why do you post raving Waka Flocka and Tim Hecker reviews right next to each other?” What are you saying exactly that because Brandon likes Waka and Hecker and happens to post them in a certain way that it’s a hypocritical stance? That is far more “retarded” than anything in this article. This was spot fucking on, Watching a youtube of Salem performing is crazy offensive to me, and I rarely get offended.
Also Brandon, would love to see a post on the Odd Future collective, PF write-up was base, lookin for your insight on it.
Jason
20 Oct 10 at 6:53 am
een-
I mean, Jason already kinda mentioned this but I’m not sure how posting a song from Hecker and then Flocka has anything to do with what I’m saying.
Or, I should say, I think I can fill in the blanks in what you’re saying and kinda figure out what you mean but also, um, no. As a music blogger, I can’t like different kinds of music? (that really aren’t different, where Salem and I agree is that lots of hip-hop and electronic music are kinda the same). You’d have a point if say, I approached them differently or something, But I don’t!
Jason-
Not a fan of Odd Future actually. I have a piece or two that kinda discusses why but they’re slowly being worked-out. I may try to get them up soon though…
brandonsoderberg
20 Oct 10 at 4:33 pm
YO…….SAY WHAT U WILL ABOUT SALEM BUT DON`T BE TALKING THAT SHIT ABOUT DJ NATE!!!!!!
HEAT SQUAD, SAS, MURDER EM
BORIS
7 Nov 10 at 4:38 pm
YO…….SAY WHAT U WILL ABOUT SALEM BUT DON`T BE TALKING THAT SHIT ABOUT DJ NATE!!!!!!
HEAT SQUAD, SAS, MURDER EM
BORIS
7 Nov 10 at 4:38 pm
I didn’t say anything negative about DJ Nate WTF are you reading? Read closer dude. Also, I wrote this: review of Da Trak Genious
brandonsoderberg
7 Nov 10 at 6:00 pm
[...] “don’t give a fuck.” Some people do, claiming their use of pitch alternation is downright offensive, but that sounds like something a white person would say. Like it or hate it, it’s DJ [...]
10 Years Ago…or 25, or 40? | IT'S AFTER THE END OF THE WORLD
9 Nov 10 at 2:55 am
youre gay huh
erikzachariah
12 Nov 10 at 2:25 am
THIS IS THE MOST BORING,CREEPING,LAME BULLSHIT EVER….STFU!!!!!!!!!! you are creeping me out “Braaaaandon”. Uuuuuu Maaaaaad.
Are you like 80 years old? you should probably just go to bed.
DO you Haaaate Rick Ross??? write a long boring thing about him, that 17 people will read and source more random peoples twitters….LOL
:: Love to SALEM, Love to DJ Nate ::
(they are making something raw, not sitting around trolling on their blog, and trying to call things they dont understand “racist”.
U a clown Brandon…. go take a nap
STFU
19 Nov 10 at 2:49 pm
lolz
brandonsoderberg
20 Nov 10 at 6:36 am
LOL stfu straight PONED u brandon
LOL “go to bed”
LOL
20 Nov 10 at 5:58 pm
still lolzing over here…
Brandon
20 Nov 10 at 10:47 pm
Salem’s first releases came out on Disaro records – a label run by a black man from Houston who says he grew up listening to the city’s chopped/screwed sound. He’s obviously a huge champion of what salem does. Why not shoot him an email and explain to him why he should be offended by what they do?
btw, that’s a cool pic of bleeding black person on yr twitter page. glad u managed to use it without appropriating anyone else’s circumstances for yr own aesthetic pleasure.
doug
16 Dec 10 at 9:29 am
doug-
Not really sure how a still from ‘The Omega Man’ is offensive, but okay. Other than that, you’re pretty even-handed here, so:
I’m not trying to tell anybody why they should or shouldn’t be offended, I’m saying that their approach IS offensive. As Weingarten said in the Voice article you obviously followed here, it’s mostly that they’re just terrible at this stuff. It sounds bad on every level. Not well-done or interesting.
But also, the screwing their voices and then saying shit they wouldn’t say otherwise. That’s a mask. That’s hiding behind something to do things they couldn’t otherwise do. That’s minstrelsy.
I’m not sure how or why Robert Disaro’s opinion of them and being from Houston and being black validates Salem. Or rather, I don’t agree that it does. The name of this article is “Salem, and why it’s never been about authenticity.”
So you know, DJ Screw himself could rise from the grave, pulled from the pits of hell by Salem’s shoddy bass-tones and tell me these guys are the shit and I don’t think it would change my opinion of their music or the cultural issues contained in that music…
Really though dude, that’s the weakest, worst argument ever: “a black dude from Houston likes them so STFU.”
NEXT.
Brandon
16 Dec 10 at 9:06 pm
“I’m not trying to tell anybody why they should or shouldn’t be offended, I’m saying that their approach IS offensive.”
IS offensive? as a general rule? Sorry, there are only particular ppl that are or are not offended. Something cannot be inherently offensive to all ppl in all places and all times. Sounds to me like YR offended (b/c you, as a white person, find what SALEM do offensive to black ppl or at least a strain of black culture?) If that’s the case 1) fine. But 2) who cares? 3) Playing the race card in an attempt to legitimate your personal dislike for this music is lame. Unless of course you can somehow demonstrate that Salem IS offensive as a general rule, whatever that would mean.
doug
17 Dec 10 at 11:51 pm
doug-
Sorry to not get back to you sooner, I was at a day-long protest against Salem. I kid. Just busy at work.
First of all, chill out. Second, you’re misreading me or to be fair, perhaps I was unclear. It’s offensive. I’m not interested in telling people “hey this is offensive, don’t listen to it” or as I said, I’m not telling anyone why they should or shouldn’t be offended, I’m not trying to discredit these idiots or take money out of their pocket or whatever, I’m just saying “this is offensive.”
Mainly, I’m offended as a rap fan. I also, as I said somewhere above in the comments, this isn’t this thing where I’m like “won’t you think of the black people!!” It offends me. It makes me uncomfortable and a little bummed out to hear their music, but not in the uncomfortable or bummed out way that they intend. I’m not going to re-argue my points, as I think I explained them pretty well in that way too long essay above that all the Salem defenders clearly skimmed. I’m still waiting for the person to explain how this isn’t offensive and I’m still waiting for someone to argue about this without playing fast and loose with phrases like “race card.”
Namely, this is just a really terrible and loaded term, so I never use it (it always has a negative connotation) but also Doug, when did I invoke the race card here? Because I discussed race? Fuck outta here dude.
Brandon
19 Dec 10 at 7:31 am
SALEM are a band that could only exist in this blogosphere age. Their appeal is really best portrayed in small format music videos, interview blurbs, album covers, and of course, their draggy, druggy, drippy sound. Their attempt to create an imagined world of Methamphetamines, grainy VHS videos, canned hip-hop beats, ghostly voices and a lingering sense of goth/early-industrial is effective by anyone’s account. But that isn’t enough to convince everyone.
Most people’s main complaints about the group are as such:
SALEM are lazy and don’t care about anything.
SALEM are calculated.
SALEM invokes some concept of privileged white kids.
SALEM are a bad live band.
Let’s talk about these first 2 opposing points. The first being that they are a band that are “lazy” in some way. Which i find nearly laughable. From their absurd public persona, to their production style, to their videos and everything in between it is easy to see they are anything but lazy. Their songwriting may be simplistic, but so is most of 69 Love Songs and you don’t see critics calling Stephen Merritt lazy. It seems the average blogger can easily slap them with this title because they are in their eyes nihilistic drug users who hold no adoration to the genre they built out of nothing. But it is obvious that it takes painstaking attention to detail to make sure everything you say and do and create falls into a specific aesthetic. They care, they just don’t care about the things people want them to care about. Which brings me to often used insult of “calculated”. I feel like calculated should be removed from the music critic’s insult vocabulary entirely. It implies some sort of negative feeling towards an attention and awareness to details. It makes me feel that every critic wants an artist to exist in an island in which they create beautiful music without even the most basic perception of self. Essentially requiring all musicians to become benign sociopaths. Being calculated means you give a damn about what you are doing with your music.
Next let’s talk about SALEM getting their image as privileged white kids “appropriating black music”. This argument seems to come from 3 main points: the obvious musical cues from screw music and southern rap, their use of pitch-shifted vocals, and their use of freestyle raps that involve violence and hyper-masculine situations. Firstly, their use of screw music is at the heart of their sound, and they would be a different band without it. This argument falls apart when held up to any scrutiny. People didn’t get pissed at the Belleville 3 for appropriating Kraftwerk and Parliament. People didn’t get pissed at bands like Air France for appropriating the sound of “sunrise rave” or Balearic dance music. I don’t see why SALEM should be any different from these examples. Now, the pitch-shifting. The complaint is that it makes them sound “black”. Something that i find offensive on the outset. First off, it implies that any man rapping with deep vocals is automatically black. Then it implies that there is some way to determine if someone is black based off their voice alone, which is just absurd. When a white person sings or raps a line from a song by a black artist, does this imply that they are trying to “sound black”? I guess if they rapped in a nasally def-jux indie hip-hop it would be all well and good because they “sound white”. This follows to their use of violent imagery in their vocals. This isn’t an appropriation of the more violent hip hop out there. It’s another way of portraying their vision. The “rape-gaze” sound. It would be pretty silly if every part of their image and sound invoked a sense of terror and violence but their vocals were nothing but party chants like “everyone get your hands in the air!!”
Lastly, about their live show. I can’t defend their live show except to say these two things. If every band was judged as harshly over their live shows, Junior Boys and The Blow would both be out of jobs. Secondly, they have been the first to admit what they do doesn’t translate correctly on a stage. Which is why you don’t seem them booking a 3 month international tour.
After this incredibly long rant i have these final things to say. You can’t argue that SALEM doing something unique. You can’t argue that their vision is provocative. You can’t argue that they have spearheaded a genre. They will continue to borrow from what they love (like any other musician), be violent, nihilistic, and painstakingly creepy.
Sean
19 Dec 10 at 10:26 am
….such a much better way of looking at the situation
hate breeds hate…. more <3 please
trueTrue
19 Dec 10 at 1:58 pm
Sean-
Glad my comments section could house your essay on Salem, but I’d once again, really encourage you or some of you to read my essay. I’m not worried about their whiteness or their privilege (which given their seedy backgrounds, is maybe close to non-existent).
Indeed, I think Salem are a good example of how wrong all this stuff can go, even with a) their lack of rich kid privilege, b) their proximity to the regional sounds they swipe and c) they’re clear, quite brilliant understanding that electronic music and goth rock and doom and all kinds of other stuff share traits with hip-hip.
All that said, they’re way of doing this all is really problematic. I already explained that though!
re.: “sound black”
I think this would be an offensive statement Sean, if I said it without irony. Mind the scare quotes around it first of all. Second of all, the thing is, that’s what it does. It doesn’t make them sound like screw vocals, it makes them sound like Z-Ro or Project Pat–deep voiced, black southern rappers. Third of all, there’s no part where I imply all black people sound like this…
But okay, that’s ultimately whatever. It’s the use of hip-hop slang and cadence “I be” and “skreets,” coupled with this screwing down of their vocals to indeed, “get away” with saying “bitch” and “I be” that’s just egregious.
Brandon
19 Dec 10 at 7:12 pm
Obviously i read your essay, it’s insulting to assume otherwise. I simply expanded on further weak points that have been made in general about the band. In doing so, i covered your points, which are just as flimsy.
So you have no problem with them pitch-shifting their vocals, as long as they speak in a non hip-hop fashion? I’m sure you have no problem with The Knife, Radiohead or Prince doing the same. Correct? Additionally, you have no problem with them using hip-hop slang as this isn’t the domain of any race or gender. Correct?
But it’s the 2 being used together that you find so egregious. Like some sort of racist alchemy. The 2 things on their own hold no threat to your delicate sensibilities, but when combined they create such a devastating effect that you feel the need to trash an entire band publicly.
It seems that you are simply using this incredibly flimsy reasoning as some sort of justification for just not liking the band’s vision. If you just had a complaint of aesthetics, then that is fine, they aren’t for everyone. But you go further and lodge the absurd complaint that their usage of a vocal effect and usage of hip-hop slang makes them at best culturally insensitive and at worst racist appropriators. It’s a weak argument. Anyone can see that.
Sean
20 Dec 10 at 8:21 am
Sean-
I’m not saying my point is special or nothing, but I purposefully came at it with a nuanced perspective and wrote it, as a response to the critiques of Salem already out there. Your comment seemed entirely tailored at those other Salem critics.
Moving on. It’s clear that this discussion’s going nowhere because we’ve entered this idiotic area that race discussions devolve into when one side is trying to play “gotcha” (which you and others are) and it’s all a big mess of technicalities.
So, of course dummy, I don’t see anything inherently wrong with vocal manipulation. Why would I?
If you’re referring to Prince’s “Bob George” track, in which Prince down-pitches his voice to sound like a thugged out black dude, well, no it isn’t offensive. a. B/c it’s clear satire and Prince clowns himself on it (“that skinny mutha fucka with the high voice??”) and b. B/c Prince is knowingly engaging in this complex, cross-cultural and inter-cultural discussion. Part of Salem’s problem is that they refuse to present what they’re doing as serious or not serious.
Undoubtedly though. Prince is engaging a racial element in his music and he’s willing to face the consequences and/or he has a point. When Thom Yorke moans into a computer, there’s no racial element or any cultural element, so it isn’t the same.
Since you’re playing this game of hyperbolic disconnected examples: “So you’re not offended by clowns or guys wearing corpse-paint but once it’s black cork and big red lips it’s offensive??”
What auto-tune or a vocoder has to do with down-shifting one’s vocals and rapping, while adopting a Southern black dialect, I do not know.
The use of hip-hop slang of course is a dicey and complex issue. While words like “yo” or “dope” have entered the general parlance, “skreetz” is not slang. It’s a pronunciation that is consciously mimicking and invoking black southern hip-hop. That is yeah, where this gets weird and problematic.
It’s like “y’all” or “terlet” (how a lot of white Southerners says “toilet”). This isn’t slang dude. It’s a very specific pronunciation and employing it has weight.
Once more, much of Salem’s awful-ness comes from their refusal to engage in this stuff. Of course, it’s smart, but you know, when Coco Rosie dropped an n-bomb in a song or shit man, The Shop Boyz employed a surfer dude accent, they were making some kind of statement
Once more: Salem are manipulating their voices to say things they would not say with their voices not manipulated. Not only the use of the word “bitch” (which isn’t owned by rap) but even the way he drawls it out, he’s mimicking Z-Ro.
Brandon
20 Dec 10 at 8:58 am
Prince has done a great deal of pitch-shifted vocal tracks, but it is probably most famously used in “Bob George”. I really wouldn’t say Bob George is a satire or a song to be taken lightly as it a song that the artist (no pun intended) himself has stated is about domestic abuse at the hands of a “ruthless thug.” So his use is meant to be serious. I bring up other examples in which an artist decides to use down-shifted vocals without any use of slang or regional dialect to prove this point: It is obvious that we have ruled out that vocal manipulation alone can’t cause you to tense up in the name of racial insensitivity.
You complaint is still boiled to this idea that they are using a southern hip-hop dialect with this pitch-shifting to create a specific sound. This mimicking of Z-Ro that you find to be racially insensitive. You then go on to make the assumption that SALEM would not use this dialect without the aid of pitch-shifting. Obviously that is pure, uneducated assumption on your part but lets say you were right.
Can no one but black southern rappers use these sacred words? Can no white men sing along to the tunes of Z-Ro without fear of being pegged a racist? It can’t be a regional issue, because there are plenty of rappers and singers who effect a specific pronunciation that isn’t inherit in their common voice. So it becomes a race issue. White men can’t rap like black men. It’s wrong. But yet there is people like Paul Wall, who aren’t being called racists or mintsrel-like.
It has to do with the fact that they seem like “outsiders” to the hip-hop world, which they obviously are. Because theirs is a theft of style without a career dedicated to a specific genre, it becomes somehow racist. We make the massive leap from an adoration and imitation of a rap style to some sort of unconscious racism on their parts. Doesn’t this seem like an incredibly strained excuse for just not liking what a band is trying to do?
Sean
20 Dec 10 at 11:14 pm
Sean-
At this point, I’m only answering so I don’t give you some satisfaction that you’re correct or have “won” because it’s clear you’re just on some philosophy undergrad construct shit that’s full of ad-hominems and incorrect assumptions, but yeah–
“Bob George” is of course, a good example here because it does have a racial component to it. It’s a song about domestic abuse yes, but it’s mostly a song about Prince being overtaken by the shock of the new: Gangsta rap. Hence his vocals pitch-shifted down, so he sounds like a deep-voiced thug–the antithesis of Prince as far as the great purple one is concerned.
I will not indulge your argument that all pitch shifted vocals are the same though. Because they aren’t.
ONE MORE TIME: There’s a racial component to what Prince did on that song or what Salem are doing. That is undeniable. ‘Kid A’ has no racial component. Prince shifting his voice up or Madlib, usually doesn’t have that component either.
That doesn’t mean Salem are automatically wrong, but it does mean that they can’t dismiss this stuff they way they have (“gimme a break”).
When Salem release songs where they rap pronouncing words like “skreetz” and saying, “I be” (neither of which they seem to say in interviews) without pitch-shifting their vocals, I’ll concede.
Like, the argument here would be whether or not this is offensive not that what they’re doing isn’t somehow mimicking the sounds of black rappers–because that’s undeniable.
I think if they just screwed their voice down and didn’t actively invoke a strain of hip-hop, they’d be boring douches but they wouldn’t be quasi-minstrels.
What is minstrel-like about Paul Wall? How is he misrepresenting himself? Beastie Boys? Yelawolf? Bubba Sparxxx? What does Salem using an accent they DO NOT USE IN EVERYDAY LIFE and pitch-shifting their vocals down have to do with Paul Wall?
I’d totally be into discussing why what these guys are doing has some greater meaning or is earned or interesting, but I’m not going to return to underground philosophy classes where somebody fake-reasons their way out of every debate…
For the record, I like “King Night.” Didn’t see it as a masterpiece, but was psyched on that song. Found the album kinda whatever and was totally depressed by the screw vocals…
Brandon
21 Dec 10 at 7:15 pm
Firstly, i find it really tacky that you feel the need to personally insult me in a simple debate about an issue we have opposing opinions on. Deciding to belittle my argument by tieing it to “some philosophy undergrad construct shit” shows me that you feel that it is ok to personally attack someone when they are just debating with you about an issue.
My point, again, to bringing up other artists pitch-shifting their vocals was to lay out the initial point that we can both agree on. Pitch-shifting vocals alone cannot be given a racial slant. Where you find issue, really, lies in their usage of slang and epithets. You believe it’s the usage of these 2 factors (pitch-shifting and slang) that makes them “quasi-minstrels”. You also believe that this slang A. does not come naturally to them and B. you believe they wouldn’t attempt without the aid of pitch-shifting.
The idea here is that you believe mimicking a “black southern rapper” when you are white is racially insensitive. To assign all rappers who speak in a certain slang at certain octave as the property of a specific race is ludicrous. Obviously people effect accents, slang, epithets, and pitches in song all the time. It is a part of musical history, and its not insensitive to the person it’s imitating. Using Prince, yet again, as an example in the track “If I Was Your Girlfriend”. He sings in a pitched up voice to imitate a girl. Then sings a song more or less, as a girl. Then proceeds to talk about traditionally feminine things like going to a movie and crying. Does this song make Prince a sexist? Because he uses an assumed female identity and says things he otherwise wouldn’t say in his day to day life? No, it makes him a songwriter using a song-writing technique to portray a story. The only real difference between this and SALEM in a track like “Trapdoor” is it isn’t about portraying a story as it is an atmosphere.
The complaint you make holds no water when applied to a separate artist or a separate sensitive issue (like gender) but given the same parameters (someone using imitating something they naturally aren’t to achieve a desired effect).
It seems you are applying this flimsy argument to a band because you just don’t like them on the whole and you don’t like that they used a cultural touchstone that you enjoy. That is an assumption on my part, but one educated from your insults you have made about the band (“I think if they just screwed their voice down and didn’t actively invoke a strain of hip-hop, they’d be boring douches but they wouldn’t be quasi-minstrels.”). You are trying to imply racism or at least racial insensitivity to slander a band you just don’t seem to like. But that argument just simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Sean
21 Dec 10 at 10:48 pm
I’m belittling your argument because you’re just obsfucating this conversation. You’re creating a construct instead of just discussing it…
Like, “so we can agree vocal manipulation isn’t inherently racist, right?”–WHAT? Who said that?
Also, I’m not saying all black rappers or all black people, dude. You quoted me, saying “black southern rappers” and then cite specific ones, Project Pat, or Z-Ro, so it’s clear that I’m not saying all black people. So like, just dead that point.
I also don’t think you can use my whiteness against me in the same argument in which you say that Salem’s whiteness and outsider-ness to rap isn’t fair to use against them (not that I did by the way)…
Also, you’re going to now argue, after you’ve spent like 1000s of words telling me why Salem are allowed to appropriate hip-hop culture that this isn’t even what they’re doing?
You’re going to tell me that they’re not going for that when they pitch their voices down and say “I be” and “skreets” and even prounounce “bitch” in that “biyutch”? Come on dude.
The debate is whether or not they “should” be able to do this or whether they do it successfully. You might be the only person who won’t even concede that they’re aiming for that. Or rather, that’s your point for this round.
Lastly, plenty of people think Prince is sexist. It’s an ongoing discussion about his music!
Brandon
22 Dec 10 at 4:05 am
I’m not obfuscating the conversation. I’m showing that your point doesn’t hold weight. The method i am using is applying the same parameters (someone using imitating something they naturally aren’t to achieve a desired effect) to any other band/sensitive issue. My reason for saying things like “so we can agree vocal manipulation isn’t inherently racist, right?” is to define a baseline for this argument. I am simply restating your initial point and then giving reason for why i believe to be problematic at best.
I’ve never at any point said they aren’t using hip-hop culture in their music. They are obviously using lots of cues from different hip-hop genres in their music. I am saying simply imitating a certain rapping style (aka Z-Ro) is not inherently racist or racially insensitive. My evidence for that is laid out by applying the same parameters to a different song and issue to show how absurd this idea is to begin with. You simply can’t define one specific style of rapping as sacred and unable to be imitated without the fear of being tagged a “racist”. Imitation with the intention of belittlement or ill-will, sure that could be considered “minstrel-like”. But there is no ill-will in this. In fact, its obvious that SALEM have adoration to the style they are going for.
You just can’t go around and tag people as racists because they use a style you like and you feel they haven’t earned the right to use. If you want to make the argument whether they did a good job imitating it, i wouldn’t scrutinize that as that is really just a matter of opinion. But to lodge the ludicrous compliant that simply imitating a style of rapping makes you a racist? Please.
Sean
22 Dec 10 at 6:51 am
I never called them racist. In fact, if you search the word “Racist” on this page it’s you or some other Salem defender using the word!
Minstrelsy didn’t always have negative intent to it either. That doesn’t mean it’s not offensive.
Brandon
22 Dec 10 at 6:57 am
Are you now trying to say that your initial point WASN’T to paint SALEM as racially insensitive? I’m using the word racist as it is what is at the heart of this debate. If you are backing off the initial point, that’s fine. But that was your initial point. That imitating a specific hip-hop style is racially insensitive.
And of course Minstrelsy has a negative intent. The whole purpose of the Minstrel Show is too exaggerate black stereotypes for comedic effect in song and sketch. They sure weren’t doing this in respect and homage to black culture. That is why you felt the need to use it in your initial essay. You know using that term implies an inherent racism. Again, i am simply stating that the inherent racial insensitivity you speak of simply isn’t there.
Sean
22 Dec 10 at 7:17 am
There’s a big difference between “racist” and having “racist intent.”
“Racism” may be at the heart of the debate you’re having, but indeed, my point was to further parse this out…To not dismiss them as rich boy fuckwads (which they aren’t) or as lazy idiots (which they also are not, their music is quite intentional and conceptualized) and to explain how their approach is really problematic. I’d add that they lose points for refusing to address or discuss this, and just shirk it off.
Many minstrels, especially many white minstels, totally felt they were paying homage to black culture, so you’re just wrong there.
Brandon
22 Dec 10 at 7:24 am
If by “problematic” you feel their approach is in some way lacking to your standards of that specific style, that’s fine as that is a purely subjective. But are you now saying that their approach is “problematic” but NOT inherently racist or racially insensitive? If you are changing your initial point to that, we can agree as your argument has become purely subjective and a matter of personal taste.
But i reiterate my point: an imitation of a specific style not natural to the individual imitating it does not imply insensitivity or ill-will to said style inherently.
Additionally, I believe the fact that they don’t feel the need to address this point just shows that they think the point is absurd as well.
Fair point, many minstrels may have held this belief that they are paying homage to black culture, but their intention is built on initially racist stereotypes so their intention is tainted and rendered useless. So it is barely worth mentioning in defense of minstrelsy as anything but an unfortunate chapter in the history of stage.
Sean
22 Dec 10 at 7:53 am
Sean-
Once more, I find it problematic. I find their work or rather, the use of the screw vocals, and what they decide to rap about in that way they’ve decided to do that, racially insensitive.
I do not think Salem are racist. It’s really weird you’re conflating all these terms as one.
This is your point? “an imitation of a specific style not natural to the individual imitating it does not imply insensitivity or ill-will to said style inherently.”
Of course it doesn’t imply it inherently! There’d be no debate if it did. I’m saying it does with Salem and their context.
I’m not “Defen[ding] minstrelsy.” Do you even read? I’m explicating why myself and others have employed the term “minstrelsy” and how it’s more complex than “white racists.”
I think you’ve about stretched this into enough nonsense that it should just be over, though? Right?
Brandon
22 Dec 10 at 1:08 pm
What I’m saying is that SALEM’s use of screw vocals isn’t racially insensitive. Because for a racial insensitivity to occur there needs to be an intention beyond their simple usage. They are using it as a way of conveying an atmosphere or aesthetic. They are using it with no level of irony or mockery. They are using this specific hip-hop vocal style because it’s a style they appreciate, that’s it. Just as M.I.A. (someone i am not personally a fan of) sings a heavily modified cover of “Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Aaja” in the song “Jimmy”. This does not make her racially insensitive to central Indians.
So it is absurd to claim racial insensitivity when there is nothing there to call it on. When it is just simple admiration and imitation. You have to give intent, whether said intent is outwardly hostile (in the case of ironic usage or mockery) or at very least ill-informed. But they are obviously well informed of the genre they are imitating as you said yourself.
Again, i don’t see the reason to personally insult me yet again when I’m simply trying to debate an issue. I was simply replying to your statement about white minstrels believing they were paying homage to black culture. All i mean to say is you are correct about that, but i feel that homage is tainted and ultimately moot as it stems from a racism inherent in the craft.
Sean
22 Dec 10 at 4:33 pm
So, this is the last time I’m going to deal with this. You’re really mixing up your words here (you’re also filling your words with these stacking the deck qualifiers like “simply” but alright)…
Racial insensitivity does not have to be intentional. Indeed, my guess is when it’s intentionally racially insensitive it moves into the realm of bigotry or good old racism. I don’t think Salem are trying to be minstrels but that’s what they’re doing here. I don’t think they’re making fun of hip-hop or simplifying it in negative ways, but that’s what they’re doing.
My guess is most racial insensitivity is not intentional. Indeed, intentionality is always up for debate. Which is why I wrote this!
I also think there are plenty of people who think they’re paying homage to hip-hop and doing it in grossly offensive ways. So as long as they aren’t trying to offend anybody they’re okay?
Alright! Stop all the debates on racial and appropriation! Gimme a break here dude…
The reason the minstrelsy word was thrown around by others, and why I said I think it’s pretty accurate, is because of all this complex whites performing black music or grabbing this or that from black music is always dicey like this. No one’s sitting around debating say, Klansmen who are making fun of rappers or whatever. It’s this sorta thing, where homage or respect goes wrong that debates begin…
Brandon
22 Dec 10 at 9:05 pm
I don’t believe i have mixed up my words at all. I have made my point very clear. I believe that using a style of hip-hop in your music doesn’t inherently have any racial implications, regardless of who is doing it.
The question then becomes intention to implicate a racist or racially insensitive slant. We have already established that they are using this style in a respectful and educated nature, so there isn’t really any negative intention.
You don’t really seem to give any support to your reasoning that using this style does have racial implications. You just state it does, regardless of intent. But you give no support to your claim, you simply say “it goes wrong”. If by that you mean you don’t like their usage (“why is it so dark?”, “why do they say bitch so much?”), that’s subjective and not solid ground to stand a claim of racial insensitivity on. Because following this logic, anybody you believe to be a poor example of the style is automatically pegged “minstrelsy”, regardless of race, context, or intention. The usage of a specific style can’t be given a racial slant alone, you have to bring something else to the table. You have to give a reason that isn’t just “i don’t like what they did” for your point to have any validity.
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22 Dec 10 at 10:22 pm
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10 Jan 11 at 3:05 pm
Great argument. So I’ve been checking out some SALEM on youtube and I wanna know, where are all the “screwed” vocals? Like what tune should I listen to?
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11 Jan 11 at 12:49 am
[...] Now, it’s no secret that I’m a fan of SALEM but my issue with their takedown of this track has nothing to do with their particular critique but with whom they had chosen to link to, Brandon Soderberg over at his blog, No Trivia. [...]
Salem’s “Black” Magic; or That Razor Works Better When It’s Sharp – Sincerely, Occam « Fancy Plans… and Pants to Match
28 Jan 11 at 1:06 am
[...] SALEM, a group some hail as rap-influenced visionaries while others view them as a near-gag or, worse. I had the, uhh, privilege of hearing the group’s debut album over Christmas and yeah the [...]
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8 Feb 11 at 10:18 pm
since this seems important
I’m Nigerian, I live in Chicago, I’m a girl and I love dirty south hip hip and I love SALEM†
I think they do an awesome job, considering they are pretty much originators. I guess we can talk coulda, shoulda but you didn’t and you coudln’t. If you can do it better, let me hear it.
Another note
I find your argument offensive. Hip Hop/ rap is all about swag and persona, everyone knows that. Respect peoples craft and quit being a hater.
guccibandana
24 Apr 11 at 11:25 pm
I can tell you Brandon why this is NOT offensive, and if anything why you’re article is. To argue that salem slow down their voice specifically to sound like a black person is simply idiotic as soon as you recognize how often rappers (of all races) sample and slow down their voice… which your article makes me wonder, does a black rapper sample and slow down their own voice to make them sound more black? if so, then maybe you should have written your article on why this is and not why some white guys from detroit sample their voices too. I seriously can’t go a day without hearing a rap song without slowed down vocals… seriously. Now, if you want to argue that salem use the same techniques other rappers/producers use as far as vocal manipulation… sure…. but there is nothing racist or wrong about it… it’s music. It’s sorta like telling a rapper he/she can’t sample metal guitar because ya know, only white people play metal. fuck you brandon. and their “half-rapping” is offensive? The drug aspect of their music is reflective of their own lives, present and past. and is intentionally present in their vocals. If you had read anything about salem you would know a little more about their backstory, selling drugs and their bodies, who knows what else, just to keep up an addiction.
Chris
25 Apr 11 at 6:35 pm
Wow, Salem fans are dedicated at least. Though they aren’t very smart. Read the article, read the comments. All your dopey points are addressed in the article, even some of which I agree with you on (the drug stuff)!
Brandon
26 Apr 11 at 12:15 am
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New video for Salem – Sick – marks.dk
26 Apr 11 at 11:29 am
[...] SALEM might be the most polarizing band in underground music right now. Music critics seem almost evenly split between those who praise their combination of shoegaze drone-tones with Southern hip-hop vocals and those who denounce the (white) band‘s use of pitch-shifting to make themselves “sound black.” [...]
SALEM "Sick" [Video] | Death and Taxes
26 Apr 11 at 10:43 pm
[...] What’s happening is this kind of nutty inside-out approach to authenticity, wherein, White Girl Mob because they’re from Oakland, are assumed to be hood and therefore, more worthy of saying “nigga” than white girls from let’s just say, Beverly Hills. As a construct, that doesn’t work because we accept that all black people can say “nigga” without informing you of where they’re from beforehand. To repeat something I said about witch-house group Salem (who practice their own kind of lower middle class black appropriation): It’s never been about authenticity. [...]
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11 Jun 11 at 9:31 pm
Finished reading the article and each word of each post in this comment thread. Couldn’t agree more with Sean. , your article is bunk. Every time Sean has tried to deconstruct the logic of your empty argument (from multiple angles; facets) you declare it a reductio and proceed to attack him on a personal basis… Please elaborate on how else to have a civil conversation? Sean has calmly brought to bear your personal distaste for Salem and you must obviously recognize your fault. Write better articles and detach your personal sentiment in the future- otherwise admit you’re building up from your own personal opinion. Further, these observations have little to do with the discussion of Salem itself; your prose is flawed and your animosity is glaring and apparent.
mRadikl
14 Jun 11 at 10:34 am
guys stop. no one even likes Salem anymore.
Brandon
14 Jun 11 at 9:10 pm
You’re pathetic.
rmd
3 Oct 11 at 9:51 am
This is fucking dumb. As a longtime Houston resident and hip hop fan, this is not minstrelism. “Skreet” is not Southern rap for anything, their lyrics are more than “rape” threats, and they manipulate the genre well. Please go ahead and slam The Knife or Crystal Castles for drawing on this rich genre. DJ Screw, Fat Pat and Hawk would be proud of their efforts, race or origin be damned.
John
20 Nov 11 at 10:00 am
Also if Jimmie Rodgers covered a Leadbelly song it would not be considered minstrelism. Jesus, just visit Houston or something. It’s a very open, dynamic culture. Salem are not a direct part, but they are doing something very different — whether you like it or not — and drawing on a storied and respected tradition.
And they can actually pull it off all right.
John
20 Nov 11 at 10:04 am
I think every Salem fan on earth has commented here.
Brandon
22 Nov 11 at 6:38 pm
You’re outnumbered, buddy.
Though I will say this: I love Salem, but dislike the songs with rapping on them. But not because of any politically correct notions of racial sensitivity… life’s too short for such nitpicking.
Envy
12 Dec 11 at 9:31 am
Yeah, let’s just call issues of racial insensitivity/racism nitpicking. Salem fans keep showing their ass over here!
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13 Dec 11 at 2:49 pm
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[...] spaceagehustle: maura: chris weingarten’s anti-witch-house mixtape. Here are some of my fave recent songs that have many of the qualities people love about Salem—dark, foreboding, gauzy, enveloping, rhythmically unique, crypto-gothtastic, murky. But these tracks have the added value of outdated ideas like “passion” and “working knowledge of your equipment” and “not having a corny-ass white person that says ‘skreets.’” [...]
anti-witch-house mixtape | Beer And Rap
23 Nov 12 at 10:02 pm
If you are offended then you are a racially sensitive drag. Yeah it is not a soulful DJ Screw remix of a Nina Simone song. So what? It is not meant to be. It is interesting music to say the least. What music is authentic now? Music has become an assimilation of different influences. Salem sounds different than most groups I have heard before them and they are authentic in their uniqueness. As for them being white, “sounding black”, and using violent themes in the barely audible lyrics… well the song wouldn’t be the same any other way. It plays off of the aggressive nihilism that makes rap powerful and successful with the sexy twist of educated white-kid irony. It is appropriating a carnality found in “black” gangster rap that is moving and hypnotizing. It is not meant to be inoffensive. Criticizing it is too obvious. I think it’s funny/sad that white people are adopting black music born out of disenfranchised poverty. I guess it’s because rock and roll died too long ago and the indy-pop bullshit of today has no heart. Getting offended by an obscure band like Salem is silly. I find your politically correct attitude to be petty and offensive.
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Thank you Brandon for the post. I discovered Salem some months ago and even if i felt in love with the sound I was feeling inconfortable with some lyrics (Sick: obvious) and also the voice (when I knew it s actually 3 white people).
Searching for the lyrics and for some critics… I found this page and I m very happy about this.
Still like the music… maybe not as passionate as before reading the lyrics (sorry all of you… being violent and sadly stereotypically misogynist it s not a very cool/new/subversive choice of lyrics. It s, at the contrary, very mainstream. Mainstream music is full of this shit) but you were able to put words on my unconfortable feeling.
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